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Post by bigelk on Nov 24, 2008 11:08:51 GMT -6
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Post by 2shadows on Nov 24, 2008 11:27:26 GMT -6
Osiyo Big Elk!! Welcome!! Hmmm..I guess that would be Ah-whay-qua? or is that big buck? Are you a speaker?
The people here are wonderful I hope you will find it comfortable.
I checked out your san saba page..very nice..and I loved the videos page.
say hello anytime!
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Post by bigelk on Nov 24, 2008 13:39:17 GMT -6
Thanks for the welcome 2shadows. Am I a speaker? Im not sure what you mean? As in public speaker? No, but I let my mind be known probably more than I should.
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Post by Lone4eagle on Nov 24, 2008 17:29:59 GMT -6
Welcome Big Elk! San Saba...just so happens I know something about that area. Is where rattlesnakes thrive, sits just above Texas gold geology, only one other place in Texas like it. A lot of silver runs through the area too. Many caves, lost silver mines, the Spaniards produced a lot of gold/silver bars from around San Saba...probably using slave labor, no doubt. Perhaps the Natives finally all banded together, to drives them out of Texas. Much of the gold/silver had to be left behind and hidden in caves or in the ground. In South San Saba, up Buck Creek, the Spaniards were supposed to have taken several cartloads of gold for hiding. Anyway, glad to have you here at NAc message board Big Elk. Hope you'll like it.
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Post by bigelk on Nov 25, 2008 10:28:38 GMT -6
My wife and I have been digging holes all over the southwest looking for treasures for the last 27 years together. Its great fun and gives all kinds of history lessons of the west. The Lost San Saba Mines are somewhere around here. Its also called the Lost Bowie Mines because Rezin and Jim Bowie tried finding in for awhile without success. Here's some info; www.texfiles.com/texashistory/san_saba_mines.htmThis area of Central Texas is located on the Llano Uplift which pushed up all kinds of interesting rocks if your into that kind of stuff like us. uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rmr/llano.htmlLots and lots of frontier battles between many Native American tribes and Whites, Mexicans and Spanards happened here. Plus the last battle between the Texans and the Cherokee happened in the San Saba area. Its very thick with history here. Lush countryside, excellent fishing and the densest population of deer per acre than any other county in the US. Pecan trees out the ying yang. Man, this is a slice of heaven for a country boy.
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Post by bigelk on Nov 25, 2008 10:58:03 GMT -6
Speaking of caves. Ive done a lot of research on the Texas Cherokee in my area and I suspect that Sequoyah spent some time around here and possibly used some of the dozens of caves. He was in good standings with the local Comanche so I think this area was something of a retreat/hideout for him and some of the other Chiefs in his confidence. www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/findadest/parks/colorado_bend/
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Post by Lone4eagle on Nov 25, 2008 15:24:17 GMT -6
I was just reading about one, I'll have to check the name. I was thinking he was Indian, lead the others and later they buried him in a cave on or near San Saba peak...along with a huge amount of gold, maybe some silver, I'll have to check the story again.
You could make a whole list of treasures hidden in the area. The San Saba Mission banking had some stashed, I think it was above where the San Saba river runs into the Colorado river. Which is kind of getting up toward San Saba Peak again. Seems like they marked a tree by driving in a wrought iron spike. A couple silver caves along the Colorado river, same area too. One had a stash of siver bars, thousands of them.
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Post by Unega Uwohali Waya Adkins on Nov 26, 2008 1:49:25 GMT -6
O'siyo Big Elk, Wado for LMK about yourself and your websites looks awesome! My Great, Great Grandparents was born in Northwest Mississippi and lived in Tyler, Texas in the Cherokee Country (Northeast, TX area). Both are Cherokees. I have study about history of the Texas Cherokees but one thing is very difficult for me to learning how to use Cherokee fonts and language. I have learned few Cherokee words but will learning more when I have time because I'm Hearing Impaired and Disability (I'm slow learner ) Wado for sharing and welcome to the Native American & Cherokee Cultural Community!
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Post by bigelk on Nov 27, 2008 0:49:45 GMT -6
Thanks for the welcome here. Really appreciate it. I haven't had much interaction with other Texas Cherokee outside my area. Our little band seems to have been overlooked somehow. I guess thats our fault for hiding in the sticks too long. Chief Egg and John Bowles son of Chief Bowl (Duwali) and several warriors were killed near the mouth of the San Saba River on December 25, 1839 and yet there is no monument or historic marker. Very few know our story.
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Post by Lone4eagle on Nov 27, 2008 20:26:17 GMT -6
Thanks for the welcome here. Really appreciate it. I haven't had much interaction with other Texas Cherokee outside my area. Our little band seems to have been overlooked somehow. I guess thats our fault for hiding in the sticks too long. Chief Egg and John Bowles son of Chief Bowl (Duwali) and several warriors were killed near the mouth of the San Saba River on December 25, 1839 and yet there is no monument or historic marker. Very few know our story. I'll have to check when I get time, but I'm almost certain now that the Chief Egg or John Bowles you mentioned...is the one or maybe both who they gave a honorable burial to. This person did die and they put him into a cave along with the treasure. Some Cherokee Chiefs were honored that way. There was a Cherokee Chief who refused to go along on the trail of tears. Members of the tribe brough bags containing gold nuggets. A cave in Georgia, was prepared for the chief. One entrance went into the cave from the river, was only visible during times of low water. The other entrance, the tribe closed off, leaving their chief inside...still alive at the sealing of this entrance. If anyone opens the sealed entrance, they made a trap which would allow tons of rocks to fall on the intruders. The river entrance will be safe. Some Cherokee descendants returned many years later, carrying a waybill or map drawing to find the cave. None of the Cherokees ever could find it...is just another lost treasure cave now.
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Post by bigelk on Nov 28, 2008 10:47:20 GMT -6
There was a memorial service and a monument placed in the piney woods of East Texas where the 83 year-old Cherokee Chief Bowles (Chief Duwali or Bold Hunter) and about 800 Indians (around 600 being women, children, and the elderly) from various tribes including many Cherokees were killed in the Battle of the Neches on July 15-16, 1839. But few know that a large group escaped that battle and fled west to a hide out near the confluence of the Colorado and San Saba rivers. Col. Edward Burleson, then of the regular army, with a body of regulars stumbled upon them, attacked and killed seven warriors that included two chieftians, John Bowles (son of Duwali) and The Egg. Most escaped. Some went on to Mexico and their descendants are still there and have thier own reservation. A large group just hid out in the lush countryside that became known as the Cherokee Creek Community in San Saba County. There is no monument for these fallen warriors here and as far as I know, there has never been a memorial service here either. There are just a few mixed Cherokee blood descendants left here and most havent a clue of how they wound up in central Texas. One of the more famous Cherokees from San Saba is Tommy Lee Jones. The Battle of the Neches on July 15-16, 1839 is widely claimed to be the last battle between the Texans and the Cherokee. In fact, it even states that on one of the historic markers in east Texas but this is not correct. The last Cherokee battle in Texas was 5 1/2 months later in what is known today as San Saba county. There are lots of historical markers on the highways around here. It seems every time a white boy stubbed his toe they made it into book. But nothing about the Cherokee killed here or who were force to hide in order to survive and thier descendants had to pretend they were White. It's still not what Id call a very liberal minded area of the country. I think for the most part, Cherokee descendants still keep thier bloodlines to themselves around here and blend in with the rest of the good ole boys. I guess Im some sort of rebel throw back that feels the truth of my roots has meaning.
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Post by bearfoot on Nov 28, 2008 15:00:27 GMT -6
bigelk...have you contacted local officials in your area to ask why there are not any monuments? Maybe they just need a big boot in their hind ends to get things moving along. I agree with you that there should be something there to represent these facts in history.
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Post by Lone4eagle on Nov 28, 2008 17:03:18 GMT -6
bigelk...have you contacted local officials in your area to ask why there are not any monuments? Maybe they just need a big boot in their hind ends to get things moving along. I agree with you that there should be something there to represent these facts in history. No marker bearfoot, means he probably had a secret cave burial...like some other chiefs did, I'll explain later.
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Post by Lone4eagle on Nov 28, 2008 17:29:50 GMT -6
Big Elk, I looked and found a different chief instead. My mind may be playing tricks on me, but so many things happened in the San Saba area, is hard to remember all details.
I did find info on Kiowa chief Satanta, after he was shot and killed...the tribe took his body to Santa Anna Mountain. He was buried in a cave, they put several cartloads of gold and silver with him which came from the San Saba mines.
There are plenty of caves leading up to San Saba peak. If John Bowles (son of Duwali) and The Egg had a decent burial, with or without treasure might be up at San Sabba peak.
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Post by littlebreeze on Nov 28, 2008 20:36:25 GMT -6
O'siyo Big Elk and thank you for your site link - I am finding it fascinating and informative. I am now nurturing a dream of coming to America someday to see some dances and hear the language for myself, if that is ever possible. I have seen some of the You Tube videos before and think that these are some of the wisest people on the planet - and finally we are seeing that if we do not all take the Red Road then we shall be lost. Thank you again (Wado I think is the right word?) There are lessons in your language on You Tube and I am trying to learn
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Post by bigelk on Nov 29, 2008 11:50:27 GMT -6
I did look into a historical marker being placed but its nowhere near as simple as it seems it should be. The markers are under the authority of the Texas Historical Commission. There is a complicated process involved and plenty of hoops to jump through. They are so overwhelmed with applications that they only accept them during a narrow window of time. Marker applications for 2009 will be accepted from October 15, 2008 through January 15, 2009. So if I can get it all together this year, maybe I can get an application sent in during this time next year for a 2010 marker. Its a lot of work and Im not very patient when it comes to dealing with government paperwork. At the very least, I would like to someday have a memorial there. A smoke ceremony would be nice with a group of brethren. The closest peak to the actual battle ground is called signal peak which has been used by various tribes for centuries. A drum beat would carry a good distance there. Everything is on private land though so its tough to do much. Colorado Bend State Park is about the closest public lands to the battlefield and where the survivors settled.
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Post by Lone4eagle on Nov 30, 2008 12:14:43 GMT -6
That would be nice Big Elk, if we could get a marker. Smoke ceremony, yeah...definitely need that for sure...drums and all at the closest mountain.
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Post by bearfoot on Nov 30, 2008 18:51:26 GMT -6
Our government does not make anything easy. I hope you find the patience to persue things. It sounds a good thing for many generations to come, to realize and be aware of the things that happened there. History will be lost if we do not have these "reminders" to prompt us to find out more.
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