dog warriors

[twoknives]

would somebody please give me their interpretation of what a dog warrior is?and also how it came to the white/black/brown man's streets as dawg. I was taught/told that a dog warrior was a warrior without wife/wives ,that patroled the camp at night and kept the tribe safe from attack. this is not to be confused with dog soldiers, that helped the army hunt down and kill fellow Indians. I consider myself, proudly to be a dog warrior. twoknives

[Patient Frog]

I understood a Dog Warrior to be the strongest and the bravest of the tribe, to go out ahead of the war party to asses the battle and the ones last to leave to assure victory by not leaving survivors. It is something to be proud of. They were the best of the best.

How that got mixed up with slang, one can only guess. Maybe the reputation of such a warrior is something these guys want to claim, although they have no idea what they are claiming.

[Unega Uwohali Waya Adkins]

I wondering about that, thanks for posted and welcome to the boards twoknives!

[wardancer]

Greetings : I don't wish to upset anyone , but I take offence to the claim that " Dog Soldiers " hunted down other NDNs for the Army.
The Southern Cheyenne's have a warrior society called the "Dog Soldiers" They were and still are our bravest warriors. They would stake themselves out and would fight to the death , unless released by another dog soldier. Their primary job was to keep the peace within the tribe. They also provided for the tribe's wants and needs. They are our elite ! After the Little Big Horn a few worked as scouts for the army , but refused to guide the army to any of our allies. Only the enemies of the Cheyenne. One should study about the Cheyenne and their warrior societies , before making such a claim.
On the same note , I think a dog warrior is just a member of the Dog Soldier society and yes they are the fighting elite. One must be selected by the society to be a member , and have the ability to call themselves either a Dog Warrior or Dog Soldier. I am a member of the Southern Cheyenne , and although I know several members of the Dog Soldier Society , I am NOT a member of their society , nor would I ever claim it unless I really was.

[Huronwoman]

Welcome Twoknives! Thank you Wardancer for giving us the Cheyenne definition of Dog Soldiers, it is how I have always know Dog Soldiers to be defined. I had not heard the term Dog Warrior until today and thank you Twoknives for that question. I am interested if anyone else has any input on this.

[wardancer]

My Great GrandFather sat on the hill and watched the battle at the Little Big Horn. He was too young to join in the fight. He was about 10 years old. There is a book called "Soul of the Red Man"by Thomas Benton Williams , that has his story in it. It's rare to find a copy....perhaps a library would have it. Another good one is Woodenleg , A Warrior who fought Custer , by Thomas B Marquis. He tells alot about the societies and their jobs. It also details his life from early on all the way past the Custer Battle. History and our people is something I do know quite a bit about

[Huronwoman]

That's why we like having you around so much LOL All kidding aside you knowledge is a blessing to us all - we are like sponges soaking it up. I will try to find the books you suggested, our library is small but I will check, maybe the one near the university south of here will be a better source. Thank you again Wardancer! AHO

[twoknives]

osayo ,thank you for your words Wardancer, but now I am confused as to the title Dog Soldier.( the white man intrduced the term soldier),so that must have been picked up by the Indian much later. and I meant/mean absolutely no disrespect. I am just curious.

[wardancer]

The term " soldier " is translated the same as " warrior " In the early years they were called the " Crazy Dogs " This comes from their fierceness in battle an unbound bravery. People thought they had to be crazy to charge into a large number of the enemy , without regard to personal safety.
A play on words in translation. For example : We get upset with outsiders calling our dance outfits " costumes " Some will correct them saying it's not a costume , it's "regalia " But then " regalia" is a French word that means......costume !!!! Where is the logic in that???
Sometimes ( and I'm guilty as well ) we try to Out- reason ourselves.
When studying history , remember , history was written by the winners , so seek out the losers version , and go from there.
My Great Great Great Grandfather was Black Kettle , leading peace chief of the Southern Cheyenne , but in the book by Woodenleg , he refers to him as Black Pot , so it's all in the translation. Knowledge is the key.

[Huronwoman]

I have always heard of your Grandfather referred to as Black Kettle but not in the written word only by word of mouth, yes knowledge is the key! It seems the more I receive the more I want. As far as the urban term Dawg being used as a strong person maybe (just a guess) that was derived more from the idea that if you can't run with the big dogs you better stay on the porch ? ;D Just as the Lakota when they first saw a hose they called him "Big Dog" I would not attempt to spell the actual Lakota word. Interesting thread Thanks guys

[twoknives]

thank you wardancer, that makes sense. I have heard of "Crazy Dogs". as good as dog warriors. only better. It was terms like Buffalo soldiers , etc. that had me confused. I read what you've written , it's cool. brothers my brothers, sisters my sisters. your dog. twoknives.
ps. next I would like to ask about the old ways of counting coup.

[Eagle Plumes]

Thank-you wardancer I read this and at first and was offended as well but knowing my big brother would read this and put it into words I couldnot, and explain to all, so I tried to remember every one learns things at different times and diddnt let it bother me any more.

[Unega Uwohali Waya Adkins]

twoknives said:

ps. next I would like to ask about the old ways of counting coup.

Post a new thread in "The Old Ways" board when you ask about that.

Click on that link v
nativeamerican.proboards75.com/index.cgi?board=ow


wardancer, thank you for helping him.

AHO!

[Unega Uwohali Waya Adkins]

twoknives, I found "Dog Soldier" gallery:

www.angelfire.com/ga4/runningwolf/images6.html

Scroll down and you'll see it on the bottom and left side.

I resized "Dog Soldier" avatar and put it in your profile for you, you like it or not?

[twoknives]

White Eagle, I stand before you, just a dog. I am not worthy. with your permission, I accept your gift. twoknives.
ps. cool frigging pic bro!

[Unega Uwohali Waya Adkins]

twoknives said:

white Eagle, I stand before you ,just a dog. I am not worthy. with your permission, I accept your gift. twoknives.
ps. cool frigging pic bro!

Glad you like it and you're VERY welcome bro!

I'm sorry I typed in your post "modfiy", I clicked the wrong button, LOL! ;D I'm supposed to click on "quote".

[twoknives]

I stand now, with pride, before you. twoknives! (lupo) figure it out, it's my sacred name. basta origin. we are now of the world.

[swampfox]

wardancer said:

The term " soldier " is translated the same as " warrior " In the early years they were called the " Crazy Dogs " This comes from their fierceness in battle an unbound bravery. People thought they had to be crazy to charge into a large number of the enemy , without regard to personal safety.
A play on words in translation. For example : We get upset with outsiders calling our dance outfits " costumes " Some will correct them saying it's not a costume , it's "regalia " But then " regalia" is a French word that means......costume !!!! Where is the logic in that???
Sometimes ( and I'm guilty as well ) we try to Out- reason ourselves.
When studying history , remember , history was written by the winners , so seek out the losers version , and go from there.
My Great Great Great Grandfather was Black Kettle , leading peace chief of the Southern Cheyenne , but in the book by Woodenleg , he refers to him as Black Pot , so it's all in the translation. Knowledge is the key.

I think ya'll are going to like this!
I looked up what information you gave here, Wardancer, and found oodles of books, many of them published by Thomas Bailey Marquis. I could not find the one titled "Woodenlegs" via the Library of Congress BUT... I did find something else you might be interested in.

"A Northern Cheyenne Album" by Margot Liberty with a commentary by John Woodenlegs. Norman OK, Univ. of Ok Press 2006. Lib.of Congress Call #: E99.C53M365 2006

The extend notes on this book says that it was written by Thomas Bailey Marquis and John Woodenlegs (d. 1981).

ISBN 080613745

Dewey: 978.6004/ 973500222 22

I'm still looking! There are quite a few books by Thomas B. Marquis

"Soul of the Red Man" LC Call #: #77.W725

"Keep the Last Bullet for Yourself"

"Cheyenne and Sioux: the reminisences of 4 Indians and a white soldier"

There were several more. One a female's eyewitness account of Custer's and another about Which Indian killed Custer, then another about the days after the battle.

I was quite excited to, perhaps, find that your GGG GRandfather actually wrote something, too. That particular books has photographs.

By the way, welcome to the site!
Jennie/Swampfox

[wardancer]

I guess the actual title is " A Warrior who Fought Custer" by Thomas B. Marquis. dds#970.2
Soul of the Red Man ,is by Thomas Benton Williams. It has the story of Stacy Riggs ( Red Hat ) This is the Grandson of Black Kettle and my Great Grandfather ! It's on page 236 and has a photo. I have several copies of this book and as I can afford them , I try to buy them up. I want them for my children and grand-children.
There are many , many books out there , and a lot of info on-line as well.
There is only one photo of Black Kettle and any single photo of him published was taken from a group photo , when a group of Cheyenne Leaders went to Washington.

[swampfox]

wardancer said:

I guess the actual title is " A Warrior who Fought Custer" by Thomas B. Marquis. dds#970.2
Soul of the Red Man ,is by Thomas Benton Williams. It has the story of Stacy Riggs ( Red Hat ) This is the Grandson of Black Kettle and my Great Grandfather ! It's on page 236 and has a photo. I have several copies of this book and as I can afford them , I try to buy them up. I want them for my children and grand-children.
There are many , many books out there , and a lot of info on-line as well.
There is only one photo of Black Kettle and any single photo of him published was taken from a group photo , when a group of Cheyenne Leaders went to Washington.

If the Photo was taken in Washington then I would think that the new Museum of the American Indian would either have the original or a copy of it. They would certainly want to know that it is the only photo of him.

These days, with computers, scanners, special programs... we can even edit people out of photos and put people in who were never there, as you well know.

The other part of the fun is to protect the archives by scanning and saving to cd/dvds. Coming up on the horizon is Sony's Blu-Ray format. With a blu-ray cd/dvd you can scan 10 times the amount of information on one disc (same size as the others). I just hope that they are more detailed and faster at the same time... no clue on the speed. Sony does have a Viao computer that burns the blu-ray discs, a Playstation and a Player that just play them.

You can tell that my passion is recording history for the future generations.

I have just purchased a Sony handicam with which to record the local folklore of my area by the old ones. I will be setting up at Powwows and inviting those with stories to come in and record them - family lore, community lore, stories that are passed down to generations. I want to make 3 copies (at the very least) of each - one for them, one or more copies to give to a relative (grandchildren, nieces, nephews, friends - whomever they want to have as the recipient), and one for my library.

I am the same way about photographs and books.

Think of yourself having the oldest family photo album - there's only one copy. If anything should happen like fire or flood, twister,etc... it's gone forever. However, if you had it scanned and copied on to a cd or dvd - you could make one copy for every relative.
The same with the book, instead of purchasing the same book over and over again... you could have it scanned and burned to a cd/dvd... which can be printed off at any time.
Believe me, it takes forever to scan and burn a book to a cd/dvd... scanning takes up all the time... burning takes a few minutes. Copyright laws are that you can scan 15 percent of any book as long as you are not selling it.

I have finally purchased all of my components to be able to do this. The last piece is to up the Memory. Ok, after that it's a new computer with more power and gigs...

As you can tell, History is important to me. Telling it honestly is essential.

[wardancer]

"If the Photo was taken in Washington then I would think that the new Museum of the American Indian would either have the original or a copy of it. They would certainly want to know that it is the only photo of him."

I'm sure they know it. They probably have the original. The photo has been in several different books.
I admire your efforts. Recording history is not the easiest thing to do. Good luck in your quest.

[cherosage]

You must remember that many of these slang terms have originsof the innercity or prison net work. I know that many slangs used have prison beginings. If you're someones Dawg you are their partner/friend and have their back in the event of hostility. It may at one time come from the concept of the dog pack that many inmates run in. Mostly the White Inmates/Honkies use this term anymore.
Hey there Wardancer, Deer season is coming soon. Good to hear your comments. I don't think too many folks know your family and their extent.

[cherosage]

I also want to say that I don't think that the term Dawg has anything to do with the Cheyenne Dog Soldier. You just have to remember that Ebonics is a very shortened version of a street slang.